Salsa > Wikipedia project for salsa dancers in particular.

Discussion in 'Salsa' started by Beltz, Dec 3, 2005.

  1. Beltz

    Beltz New Member

    There really is a lack of info about salsa on Wikipedia, especially about the dancers. I would like to do something about it!

    Wikipedia is, in my opinion, the best website on the Net and will one day be considered as the first wonder of the information age. It is a free encyclopedia that anyone can contribute to, and the english version now contains about 850,000 article. Considering that Encarta, Britannica and other famous encyclopedia worth million of dollars of development have about 60,000 articles each, Wikipedia's success has been phenomenal and it is growing fast, in many languages.

    So...
    It is a bit too early to start an actual "Wikiproject" on salsa since I do not know if enough people will contribute. However, I will start a few articles on DANCERS and other things related to the dance only. I would appreciate any suggestions here on who to do articles on, what websites to use as references as well as other ideas on articles related to the dance.

    Feel free to use this thread for other purposes related to salsa articles. I really want to write about the dancers, but feel free to talk about the music, singers, congresses, videos, instruments, etc. And don't bother asking permission! Just START an article or modify an existing one without asking! THat's how wikipedia works, and you don't even need to create an account to begin contributing!

    In hope that we can use this thread to coordinate the project a little, I will "reserve" the next 2 replies and I will edit them with info on this project such as what has been done, suggestions on what to do next, etc. If we get enough people helping, perhaps we can start an official wikiproject on their website as well.
     
  2. Beltz

    Beltz New Member

    To get the ball rolling, here are a few articles that should be done. Feel free to suggest new ones!

    -Eddie Torres
    -Albert Torres (promoter)
    -Frankie Martinez
    -Juan Matos
    -Milton Cobo
    -Eddie salsafreak
    -Al Espinoza
    -Supermario
    -The 3 Vasquez brothers
    -Salsa Congress
     
  3. Beltz

    Beltz New Member

    NOTE: I cannot post URLs yet so I will just write the keywords that you have to search for on the english wikipedia website instead.

    Done:
    "List of Famous Dancers" (needs more names)


    In progress:
    "Eddie Torres" (based on the bio the eddietorres dot com website and edited to be more encyclopedic). Not complete yet.

    Next that I will attempt: "Frankie Martinez" or "Edie the Salsa Freak"
     
  4. brujo

    brujo New Member

  5. mayanempire

    mayanempire New Member

    A few additional suggestions:

    Franklin Diaz
    Joby Martinez
    April Genovese
    Duplessey Walker
    Olivia Dasso
    Jai and Candy
    Thomas Guererro
    Amanda Estilo
    Vitico "La Magia"
    Osmar Perrones
    Liz Lira
    Alex Da Silva
    Burju and Victor
    Mario B
    David Melendez (promoter)
    Latin Madness (off-Broadway show)

    and many more...
     
  6. Sagitta

    Sagitta Well-Known Member

    Welcome Beltz. That's a good idea. I'm surprised that about the lack of info on salsa...
     
  7. africana

    africana New Member

    agree with these ;)


    other important dancer/performer/promoters/teachers
    - Ismael Otero (the other "million moves man")
    - Griselle Ponce
    - Jayson Molina
    - Angel Ortiz (Razz m tazz)
    - Addie Rodriguez
    - Addie Diaz
    - Nelson Flores
    - Jimmy Anton (promoter)
    - Jhesus Aponte
    - Felipe Polanco
    - imambo.tv crew
    - Seaon Bristol
    - Josie Neglia
    - Tito & Tamara
    - Sekou Miller
    - Mike Bello
    * La Voz del Mambo website (lavozdelmambo.com) interviews many influential dancers and musicans

    Important dance teams:
    Santo Rico
    Tropical Gem
    Yamulee
    Los Rumberos (in the past lol)
    Hacha y Machete
    Carribbean Soul
    Son con Clave/Victor & Gaby of MEX
    Papa Tambor/PR
    ....?
     
  8. Big10

    Big10 Member

    My concern -- especially as the list of recommendations seems to be growing really long -- is what would be the criteria for inclusion? In other words, if eventually everybody is great, then nobody is great. I think there should be some "test of time" from general popularity and/or important innovation that would serve as the basis for inclusion.

    For example, out of the original list of 10 subjects posted by Beltz, I have a hard time understanding why the Cobo Brothers are there. I've seen them in person and I'm not denying that they are excellent dancers -- but there are lots of excellent Salsa dancers in the world, so I don't know why they would stand out from the other elite dancers. I would almost put Juan Matos in the same category as the Cobo Brothers, but my guess is that Juan Matos has been more popular for a longer period of time, plus Juan Matos has done a little more in terms of creative performance choreography. (If I'm wrong about that, then let me know.)

    It's that type of analysis that should go into the final decision to include particular dancers/promoters/events. If you go through the analysis and still include the Cobo Brothers then that's fine, of course (since I'm only using them as an example based on my limited knowledge). Much will depend upon the size of the list, too, since the criteria for creating a "Top 100" would be different from a "Top 10" of course. I'm just pointing out that if the encyclopedia gets bogged down with too many currently trendy names, then that will diminish the significance of the ones with truly unique and long-term influence.
     
  9. africana

    africana New Member

    that makes sense what you siad because I certainly wouldn't rank most of these dancers on the same scale or level as Eddie Torres

    But these are all influential dancers and individuals in different realms and times, so one solution could be to group them by years of active influence.
    For example the Vasquez bros, Edie the salsa freak, Josie Neglia, Liz Lira are somewhat "old school" LA pioneers. Similar for Angel O, Frankie M, Duplessey and some others

    Whereas Juan Matos, Griselle, Ismael and otehrs are recent influential players...the next wave has been Supermario, the Cobo bros, Amando Estilo, etc

    So there could a chronological + impact categorization

    For example Frankie M might be "old school" but he's had tremendous impact, more so than latter stars like Juan Matos..

    Similarly Eddie Torres...

    Also considering the high turnover/burnout rate of pro dancers, the lack of incentives to remain in the circuit/biz, the longevity measure you suggest isn't very practical as it leave maybe 3 names on the list (ET, Edie and Frankie) lol
     
  10. brujo

    brujo New Member

    If enough people cared about this and worked on it, it will eventually reach a point of balance. Wikipedia is pretty good at this.

    Let's assume that a relevant instructor is skipped, then a person coming across this article can easily add it. At the same time, if a blatantly bad instructor adds their name to the greats of all time, they will be removed.

    Perhaps instead of linking to every single instructor, just an external link to salsa411 should be enough.
     
  11. Beltz

    Beltz New Member

    About the actual list, it's a list of famous dancers so as long as the names are internationally quite known (in the salsa dance world), it will suffice for the purpose of the article. There are probably less than 100 famous dancers, and I don't see the list growing past that.

    Also, as the list gets bigger, we could start sorting it into sub-categories (male, female, popularity level, era).

    I was surprised by your comments on the Cobos (Milton for me) and Juan Matos because I usually perceived them as the two of the biggest names next to Frankie. Of course, I am probably wrong, but it doesn't really matter here. I think that as long as no one STRONGLY disagrees about certain dancers, there won't be too too much dispute about who to include and who to not include. As long as we agree someone is well known :)

    For the "List of Famous Dancers", I think that it should not require the dancer to actually be "the best!". Also, the fact that Eddie Torres and Frankie are on the same list as some far less skilled dancers shouldn't matter. This is just a list of famous dancers. If it were a list of famous rock stars, putting Elvis alongside Axl Roses would be appropriate.

    I will add some names to the article but guys, dont be shy, go ahead and edit any article in there as much as you want, even the list. Even if its just to start an article (say on Milton Cobo) and you just write "Milton Cobo (birthdate here) is a well known salsa dancer and instructor from North Carolina). That is ALL you need to do to get something started.
     
  12. Beltz

    Beltz New Member

    Guys, unfortunately, I cannot edit my posts unless a moderator changes my permissions I think. Thus I will post about latest changes and things to do in a reply instead, with a reconizable landmark so that you will be able to spot them easily.

    ___________________________________
    =========== UPDATE =============
    ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
    DONE:
    -Added a few dancers, famous couples and teams.
    -I added some of the suggestions for dancers but only the ones that I reconized. Feel free to add others yourselves, OR if a second person replies here telling me that a certain person should be included ALONG with their style (ny, la, pr, cuban), I'll add them as well.

    NEEDS YOUR HELP:
    -Debate here on who to include on the list, especially teams, couples or individuals.
    -On the List of Famous Dancers article, try to start the article on some of them and include a very basic info such as:
    "Beltz is a well known salsa dancer, instructor and performer from Anytown USA. He has competed and taught in many salsa congressed and holds a school in CITY, COUNTRY. " If possible, include the birth date. Try to find the full name of the person. If he has a website, add a link to it. If you dont know how to add a link, just copy and paste the address and someone else will create a link.
    -When you post new info HERE to include to wikipedia, add a "landmark" such as ************* RECOMMENDATION ************* so that it can quickly be noticed.
    -Post more suggestions on articles. They can also be on something else than dancers, such as promoters, how to dance, etc.

    WHAT NEXT (for me)
    -I'll help in trying to get a mini article (stub) started on each person on the list and finding their website.
    -I'll try to finish at least the chronology on Eddie Torres' article since I stopped at around 1980.
    -If you post enough links here on a certain dancer that gives me enough info to write a bio, I will write one as well.
     
  13. Patrick Pfavayi

    Patrick Pfavayi New Member

    Any technical division or list of great salsa dancers is doomed from the start.

    Why?

    Because no two people will agree who is the greatest or greater than the other salsa dancer.

    Besides L.A salsa has a lot more "known" dancers than the other forms of salsa and so the list would be biased towards L.A salsa.

    So...
    Why not make a "natural" division of salsa dancers according to the type of salsa they dance ....
    Colombian salsa
    L.A salsa
    Cuban salsa
    Puerto Rican salsa
    NY salsa
    Rueda de casino
    Etc...

    Natural because this is how dancers understand the salsa they are dancing ...

    Naturally an L.A salsa dancer will support L.A salsa dancers in the list...
    And a Colombian salsa dancer will support Colombian salsa dancers in the list...
    Etc etc...

    Each contributor can suggest any name in any category - BUT THEY SHOULD WRITE A SMALL/BIG BIOGRAPHY AND REFERRANCES about the dancer -Including videos , pictures etc.
    A "natural" selection will determine which name is included and where it is found on the list because people (of the type of salsa) will be able to make an informed decision about the dancer in that category of salsa.

    As stated before, some dancers have a long history, some are great organizers, some are new in the dance scene , some have great choreographies , some have won big competitions, some have retired , some are great social dancers etc...

    A "natural " selection with their biographies will put them in their "natural " position without people fighting about who should be where ...
     
  14. snapdancer

    snapdancer Well-Known Member

    Do you realize that you've replied to a thread that had gone inactive over 11 years ago?
     
    vit likes this.
  15. opendoor

    opendoor Well-Known Member

    wiki isn't by no means a rational thing, Patrick . It cannot be planned straight from the desktop. Wiki still is an arduous collective process of decision and agreement. Mind, that there already are versions in 45 languages. What would you think should be the basic language for salsa?
     
  16. Patrick Pfavayi

    Patrick Pfavayi New Member

    So I revived it after 11 years !!!!!!
     
  17. Patrick Pfavayi

    Patrick Pfavayi New Member

    "Mind, that there already are versions in 45 languages. What would you think should be the basic language for salsa?"

    Wiki in any other language other than english is pretty unreliable as a source of info ...

    The english version is corrected by nearly everyone since nearly everyone knows english and can understand what the wiki says ...

    The local versions have a very limited set of editors and most of the time local bias will result in a biased version that noone will correct ....
     
  18. opendoor

    opendoor Well-Known Member

    That´s true, but salsa was invented in the spanish speaking community. So would it not be of historic interest to use "dile que no" instead of CBL? Surprisingly (for me) is that the spanish page is found under CBL o_O , and that there still is no spanish overview on basic moves, too.
     
  19. tangotime

    tangotime Well-Known Member

    Salsa "invention " is still a moot point. Having been born out of mambo ( which became very Americanised )'

    So... The musical change in the 70s gave birth to the new name, and the old styled mambo, was incorporated.

    salsa, at best , is a hybrid. CBL and DQN come from 2 different sources. 1 Cuban, the other American.

    The CBL, is now more generic, and has a longer usage historically , hence , I guess the reason for naming only it, would be more recognisable .

    As to basic moves, comparing the Cuban styles ( where the origins of salsa lay ), the foundational moves in salsa, with "breaks ", did not exist as such in Cuban style, and still do/should not, according to many,and again, a moot point.

    What is more interesting ( to me ), is, how many variations in use in the current style, had established American/ English names , before the salsa revolution.

    The Spanish names given to todays steps, are possibly more descriptive in Spanish than English, tho I could make a claim, against some of those .

    Finally, as to Wiki, the exercise is really pointless, as there are already numerous reliable sources and publications, that cover the genre in great detail .
     
  20. Steve Pastor

    Steve Pastor Moderator Staff Member

    The English article on Salsa (dance) has practically zero verifiable, authoritative references. So there is certainly room for improvement.
     
    opendoor likes this.

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