Ballroom Dance > Man's head position in Viennese Waltz

Discussion in 'Ballroom Dance' started by DanceMentor, Oct 19, 2003.

  1. DanceMentor

    DanceMentor Administrator

    I was watching the pros compete at the Hotlanta Dance Challenge last night. During the Viennese Waltz, it seemed apparent that all of the men looked against the line of dance around step 5 of the Natural Turn. Am I right? Does anyone know the answer?
  2. DanceMentor

    DanceMentor Administrator

    It's been eight years and I am still waiting for a reply!!!

    But also, what about changes in the lady's head during the Viennese Waltz?
  3. Partner Dancer

    Partner Dancer Well-Known Member

    Shouldn't the answer be obvious? Each partner's head is were it needs to
    be to achieve the desired movement, in terms of travel, turn, smoothness,
    stability, effort, inter-partner force, athleticism, dizziness, etc.. The head
    position is reflected in and compensated by the rest of the body, as well as
    the body of the partner. Nobody ever asks a driver where his/her hand or
    foot is when making a left turn, because there are too many factors to
    consider, including the capabilities and characteristics of the car, the
    road condition, etc.; the hands or feet are where they need to be to
    negotiate the turn.

    Within the above context, since step 4 is the backing step in a Natural
    turn, that's when a dancer would be roughly looking back LOD. By
    step 5, the head would be looking roughly back diagonal center. I
    believe that's the case here...

    youtube watch?v=YcaYFLeKwJA
  4. Angel HI

    Angel HI Well-Known Member

    I don't mean to be testy, but it really bothers me when replies begin with statements like, "shouldn't it be obvious" (third time tonight by different posters in various threads). 1- it really belittles the asker, and 2- it adds nothing to the reply.

    Now, asking forgiveness for my mini-rant, :notworth: moving the heads, especially for the lady is a common exaggeration in the VW. Partner Dancer is correct in that the heads are where they are to facillitate the movement, and there are but 2 in VW. The left rotation is a greater orbit than the right rotation and thus requires a slightly --very slightly-- more leftward posture of the man's headline. The right rotation, being a smaller one is where we see most of the error, and probably is the reason for the post in the first place. Often, men will effect the same extended leftward headline (probably trying to make the topline appear more grand, IDK), when dancing into step 4 of the right turn. It really just puts undue tension on the turn and does nothing for the aesthetics at all.
  5. fascination

    fascination Site Moderator Staff Member

    I would love to hear a discussion of ladies' head on VW
  6. govnu

    govnu Member

    most the time on her left side

    For Left Foot Forward or Backward Closed Changes, lady could turn her head to right.

    However, I check the limited resources I have, from Ms Caterina Arzenton onward, all the World Professional Standard Champions keep their heads on their left sides.

    Of course, some heads have the metronome swing actions at the end of the 3rd step of turn.
  7. vit

    vit Active Member

    Probably every dancer has slightly different style here

    Watching Mirko's video posted above, it is evident that position of his head in relation to his body is slightly changing during natural turns. At the beginning of the turn, head is pointing leftward, almost in direction of his left hand. Somewhere between steps 2 and 3 he start turning the head somewhat to the right, so at step 4 he is looking almost in direction of Monica's head. Then, his head gradually drifts leftwards again. It is hard to observe and describe this, even watching in slow motion, because these things are 3D. Also, it is evident that movement of his head slightly differs from turn to turn, affected also by geometry of the room in the Himawari studio I suppose ...
  8. Piggles

    Piggles Member

    I like change the direction of my head in VW. No real rhyme or reason for it, I just get bored holding the same position and move my head to mix it up. I usually do it after I've gone at least once around the floor so that the judges can see that I know (or don't know...) how to hold my head in the traditional position.
  9. madmaximus

    madmaximus Well-Known Member

    In ballroom dance, what seems obvious is often not the real answer...

  10. madmaximus

    madmaximus Well-Known Member

    In this regard, there are guidelines in the rotation of the torso and the rotation of the head (and its management) ...

    IMO, it's just not taught as widely.

    [just like guidelines for releasing toes, heels, etc... my rusty brain seems to think I posted that a loooooong time ago, but is unsure :) ]

  11. fascination

    fascination Site Moderator Staff Member

    I gues I know what to do with my idle time :)
  12. Partner Dancer

    Partner Dancer Well-Known Member

    It really bothers me when replies begin with "I don't mean to be
    testy" and "immediately asking forgiveness" since expressions of
    emotions contribute little to technical insight. :)

    Given that the OP has over 6600 posts and has at least 8 years of
    dance experience, it's not unreasonable to point out that certain
    subject matters should have become "obvious" simply from
    exposure. I've come to believe that the way ballroom dancing, or
    perhaps partner dancing in general, is passed down/on often
    stunts the ability to figure things out for oneself.
  13. Partner Dancer

    Partner Dancer Well-Known Member

    Partially because of the way ballroom dance is "taught." The real answer
    ultimately lies within, but many dancers are taught/told to forever
    depend on higher powers.
  14. Partner Dancer

    Partner Dancer Well-Known Member

    How do you think your partner feels with the aimless head shifting?
    How do you think a (truly good) judge would rate it, in particular
    assessing why it's happening?
  15. DL

    DL Well-Known Member

    Speaking for myself:

    I'm fairly interested in a discussion of the man's head position in VW. I'm really not interested at all in a discussion of 'the way ballroom dance is "taught"'.
  16. clumsy fellow

    clumsy fellow Active Member

    Ditto, 'cept I am REALLY interested in the man's head position.
  17. clumsy fellow

    clumsy fellow Active Member

    . . . and I am still waiting for your technical insight.
  18. clumsy fellow

    clumsy fellow Active Member

    . . . Step 5 - with pressure on ball of the right foot, right foot pointing diagonal center, hip flexor raised to partner and center turned towards partner; isn't obvious where the head would be.

    Your turn.
  19. Piggles

    Piggles Member

    My "aimless" head shifting? That's a rather opinionated comment....

    As a matter of interest, he likes it and asks me to do it more frequently. Reason being, it tends to keep me looser and more relaxed through the repetition of the figures.

    Based on my results, my judges haven't seemed to mind it. When I win, I've deserved it and when I lose I've deserved it too. Whether I turned my head 45s into VW wasn't why I won or lost.
  20. latingal

    latingal Well-Known Member

    Partner Dancer, we welcome all our members' insights and opinions as long as they do not disrespect others while expressing them. We realize the written word at times does not express the nuances we perceive when speaking in person, so tone may be misinterpreted. So we ask all our member to err on the side of caution when writing posts that might be interpreted as confrontational.

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