Discussion in 'Tango Argentino' started by itwillhappen, Apr 25, 2017.
Further to my post above...for those reasons it probably is declining but not significantly.
Are you saying connection = close embrace? Then the one regularly scheduled Salsa event I went to was even closer than Tango! There was a lot of grinding. There were easily 5x the number of people than at a Milonga. Also, my area has about 4x the Salsa events.
If you meant good lead follow, there were many Salsa dancers there that appeared to have excellent connection and were dancing very well with their partners.
If you mean connection = Tango face, then you are absolutely right. Everyone at Salsa seemed to have a huge smile.
It's more the intensity of the connection. It's higher quality and more intense in tango than salsa I found.
I find it´s not the intensity, but it´s the sort of connection that is different. In tango I switch to auto pilot, in salsa I´m highly aware of everything around and in front of me.
I don't know much about Salsa. Do they dance it with head contact, (like some people do in tango)?
I'm no Salsa expert. I saw no head-to-head contact, but lots of hand-to-head contact. Led and unled, I saw ladies run their arms up and over their heads, and run their hands down the leader's arms, or down their own sides. Those are fun moves.
There was also alot of R rated grinding, to the point my DW refused to go to that particular event again.
53! That's great.
62? Oh, if you include all of the events outside the city, yes, NY Metro Area. Some of those are very small, however.
The older milongueros and milongueras in BsAs are vanishing as age catches up with them. Whether that means the milongas are dying as well, perhaps those in BsAs can tell us.
And on a parallel part of this thread: connection. It is a spiritual as much as a physical feeling. I've been a salsero for many years as well as a tanguero for twice that. You can have deeply intimate connections in each dance, so much it seems we are reading each others souls. Each dance has techniques that further that, different ones. You can't judge one by its lack of techniques that the other has.
Here in Montreal, tango really peaked from 1997-2004 - it was a golden era (when I started). I don't even know (especially for the men) where people came from and (nowadays) where they went to. I don't think it was age because I am not a 'spring' tango dancer and I am still dancing.
Close embrace was the norm/style from about 2000-2004 and slowly, it's disappeared along with the mystery of that initial tango scene. Younger people took over to some extent, people began coming to tango as duo's and changed partners less, if at all, and the numbers shrank although there are at least 2-3 milongas each and every night and always a place to dance in the day Friday through Sunday. You can never go on auto pilot at tango - no matter how slow the tango or how elemental your partner - you always have to keep awake. That said, the connections - that chemistry (!) I used to often feel is rare now. And yet the other day - I went to a typical Sunday milonga and found a whole cache of new male dancers, each a better leader than the next. It was magical. You never know where your next, best dance is coming from. Tango needs more guys but probably younger men graviate towards salsa and swing and tango can seem intimidating, dark and ...slow. On the other hand, older men abandon tango far too soon. People in general, in life, leave the dance floor too soon
I agree in that the younger men gravitate more towards salsa, swing and zouk - for the reasons mentioned above, the biggest being salsa, zouk etc have a younger crowd on average and many more as well.
As for older men, I still find an over represention of older men at tango..and this along with very few younger men 'deters' younger females from taking tango.
I agree with you that if the connection and chemistry is there its unmatched and magical.
I think there's an intimacy in tango that transcends the obvious sensuality which is tango's 'billboard' about itself. It's almost a 'humanity' - a meeting point of such incredible connection that is a soul/spiritual collision. I've danced so many types of dance, even jazz/modern - as a solo dancer and tango still has something the other dances don't quite have (maybe interpretative does). Most often, neither person says anything or even asks the other person's name.
As for older men at tango deterring younger women etc...I don't know. I am not even sure if in my twenties I would have had the courage to go to tango! Tango takes a certain maturity and self knowledge or perhaps just a person, any age - with a certain amount of depth. On the other hand, I don't think tango is as moody and dark as people think it is. There is vals tango and milonga - both upbeat and rhythmical - totally joyful.
You could be right...I'm going on observations in my.damce studio.. Tango has a significantly older crowd - both men and women.- with just as high representation of men if not more...Whilst.salsa is full of the younger crowd (more women than men) and I think this is in line with generic global trends.
The people who stick onto tango year after year in my view are there to experience the deep connection - both physical and mental, that few if any dances can provide. Ofxourse, it's.far.from guaranteed...but the potential is there.
I know dancers ( male and female) who have not experienced that..and have dropped out as a result. Conversely, I know dancers who have experienced that including myself and comments have ranged from the magical place you talk of to sex on the floor...
That's me, unfortunately, although I haven't (and won't) completely drop out as my spouse very much likes tango. Despite my best efforts, which admittedly are not as "serious" or "concentrated" as most people on here, in 10 years of trying to learn tango I've yet to have a single dance where I've experienced so called "tango bliss". I think I know the various reasons why, but can't seem to solve the overall problem. Do lots of other dances where I can connect well with my partner, but tango is a different beast.
I always wondered where the strange tango dancers of 1997-2004 disappeared to. These were capable dancers, lots of feeling and emotion and they disappeared. I think I am one of the last, if not 'the last' (we can't count the tango studio teachers) still ...standing.
You are not alone... I started dancing Tango in 1996 in NY, when I met my future wife who was already into Tango for a couple of years. We are still dancing regularly, even when we travel!
My love of the dance intensified as I got more immersed in it and after a great musicality workshop we took a few years ago.
One of my younger salsa friend (at good level - competing well) said that he needs a drink during a salsa nigh but not so during a milonga. Tang was more satisfying for his total being.
The problem was that they never learned the leading-following technique properly as they learned escenario style (Dinzel, Pugliese, Todaro). They were literally driven away by the shortly afterwards coming milonguero-apilado stylists.
What? You mean - they just picked up tango moves/steps here and there and 'came' to tango (1997-2004 ?) and left as tango schools started teaching more formalized tango? THAT's why they left?
I have my own hunch which is - there was a certain magic in the beginning and it began to fade. I think these 'wild horses' perhaps went to greener fields for other magic and perhaps yes, they didn't want to formalize their tango and hone their leader techniques. But many/most of the women (actually 99% of the people I started with) disappeared. When I dance now, it's like I am a 'stranger' in a circle where I was once a central character . That's natural in its way - things change.
My love of tango endures - and so I continue.
What has also changed is that tango used to be attended 85% by people who came to milongas and classes on their own. Now 75% come to milongas and classes as a couple - either your dance partner/spouse or your real-life partner. The circle of partner changes after a tanda has narrowed because of that (and fewer people in tango). Sometimes, you have to wait until visiting tango dancers (other cities) come by and then new blood tango is a possibility .
But that adventure-some person who was willing to come alone, feel uncomfortable, take a risk and dance the best dance of their life (and connection) with a total stranger....I am putting out the call: please come back!
First: I don´t mean to offend you!
Second: It was meant the other way round: the 1997-2004 tango was much more formalized than it´s successors (reasons see above).
Third: The 1997-2004 tango also was based on a more equal technique, while the challenger (milonguero-apilado) did not respect the freedom of the following role that much.
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