Tango Argentino > Group Lessons vs. Peer-to-Peer (P2P) Learning

Discussion in 'Tango Argentino' started by TomTango, Apr 14, 2017.

  1. newbie

    newbie Well-Known Member

    You may have negociated poorly. Happened to me too for a series of privates. I somehow wasted my time, but the wasted money was all hers. She paid it all.

    Back to peer-to-peer. During his college years, my brother attended for a while some jive classes, taught by students of the same campus. The said students were attending classes in town with real teachers, and the next day were teaching the sequence, thus making money in the process as well. P2P learning, with the advanced peers being advanced by one day.
  2. FancyFeet

    FancyFeet Well-Known Member

    I don't see P2P as someone more advanced teaching - I see it as working with my fellow dancers, them learning from my strengths and me from theirs. I can learn so much in a 5 minute conversation with someone about something that isn't working. I know, for example, that my approach to heel turns has helped quite a few of my dance friends, simply from a 3 minute conversation with short demo in a hotel room post-comp.
    oldtangoguy, sixela and opendoor like this.
  3. Vincenze

    Vincenze Member

    Why would you pay money to a "secondary" teacher now when there are so many high-class teachers from Argentina who offer classes for the same money?
    I also have nothing against non-Argentines with dancing education, they can be as good or better in explaining intricacies of musicality and tango sequences.
    But amateur teachers...
  4. opendoor

    opendoor Well-Known Member

    Vincenze, pro or am has got nothing to do with expertise! You will find experts and wimps in either camp.
  5. newbie

    newbie Well-Known Member

    As I may have mentioned in my post, it was jive classes. Just to examplify an actual situation of P2P that I heard of.
    And why did my brother pay a student for a cheap class rather than having to take a bus to go to town and take an expensive class with a pro teacher? Time. Money. A student is usually on a budget.
  6. itwillhappen

    itwillhappen Active Member

    For students we've a college sports tango group with a nominal fee. The instructors get paid like all other sports instructors there - a fraction of a professional teachers salary. They do it for promoting the youngsters. And maybe for not let a niche open for upcoming competitors. To do some P2P learning there will not be an issue, IMHO.

    The same could be done by non profit associations for settled adults. But I think the demand for such an environment is lesser and the personal income is better.
  7. TomTango

    TomTango Active Member

    As many of you pointed out, P2P learning is happening all the time in a tango community. Thinking about it though, this learning is often inefficient and unfocused.
    • During a group lesson: some people are far too free with their feedback, some people are very wary about giving feedback and stepping on the instructor's toes. It can be awkward fitting in discussion, sometimes talking over the teacher. Rotation might happen right when a breakthrough is imminent
    • During an unstructured practica: you're not sure if you'll be able to find a partner when you show up, or a useful one. If you're with someone better than you, you might be afraid you're taking up too much of their time. If someone is not as good as you, you might feel taken advantage, stuck. You're not an instructor so you don't quite know what the most important thing to help them with. There might be an argument if you both can't agree on a way to do something. If both of you are at a loss, if a movement isn't working, there might be no one to ask for help.
    Having a guided P2P practica helps a lot of these issues. The anxiety behind giving too much feedback/receiving too much feedback is mitigated. Having a clear authority in the instructor helps with sticking points and provides structure. There will be some roation (every 20 minutes in the video), which helps a bit with being monopolized at a normal practica.

    I still am not sure how easy it would be to get advanced dancers to participate. You're banking on their investment in the community. It also seems ripe for those who are power-hungry to get a free pass to unload on a poor beginner.
    sixela likes this.
  8. Gssh

    Gssh Well-Known Member

    I think some form of p2p is neccessary to develop ones own understanding of "how tango works". To effectively deal with the wide range of more or less incompatible tango techniques requires one to be able to disentangle how things look, and how they actually work, and that requires long hours debugging and playing with movement, and that is not something that privates (or classes) lend themselves to.
  9. itwillhappen

    itwillhappen Active Member

    Would you call practicing with a partner a kind of "peer-to-peer"? In most couples the lady is the boss... ;)
  10. Gssh

    Gssh Well-Known Member

    It depends, i guess. I had not really thought of it in terms of peer-to-peer before this thread, but i am coming to like the terminology. It emphasizes that in a good practice we are not just practicing something, but we teach and are being taught by each other. We don't really want to get better at dancing with each other, but we want to become better dancers, and that only happens when we to some extent try to take our personal preferences out of the equation. When i am not careful practicing with my partner becomes polishing the things we both like. To avoid this we discuss topics before we start - basically thinking about ourselves like a coach would, instead of practicing the things we already know. I don't think a couple is the best unit for p2p - from the few times that happened i feel like a tiny practica - something like 2-3 couples seems the best environment for me - enough people to guarantee a variety of perspectives, few enough to agree what we are working on. But it is hard to get something like that going. Practicas are often somewhat varied in how much people actually want to practice the same things over and over again, or if it is really an informal milonga. And from my experience practicas for practicing don't last long, while semi-milongas flourish.
    oldtangoguy and Omar Maderna like this.
  11. itwillhappen

    itwillhappen Active Member

    According to the article The Traditional Way to Learn to Dance Tango it took three years of P2P-learning to lead other men to get milonga ready, including nine month of male following.
    And according to this article The Tango Goes Underground the high efford to meet a girl killed learning Tango when Rock'n Roll came up and made this much easier.
    Seems that Tango learning methods still haven't adapted very well to the gender situation today.

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