Ballroom Dance > Blackpool Teacher/Student vs Pro/am

Discussion in 'Ballroom Dance' started by Spookisgirl, Sep 5, 2017.

  1. Spookisgirl

    Spookisgirl Active Member

    I am hoping someone can explain to me what I seem to be missing.

    Attached are the syllabus for the Blackpool Teacher/Student events and the Pro/am events.

    If I read right, in Teacher/student any student can dance with their instructor whether that instructor is a pro teacher or an am teacher. Either type of instructor must be registered.

    In pro/am, the teacher must be a registered pro.

    On teacher/student it states that teacher/student couples cannot compete together in any other events.

    So if you dance with a pro teacher, you can do either teacher/student or pro/am, but not both?

    Since the cost of pro/am entries are twice the cost of teacher student (199 pounds vs 100 pounds), would anyone choose to do pro/am?

    Is there a distinction I am missing?
     

    Attached Files:

  2. MaggieMoves

    MaggieMoves Well-Known Member

    The intent of teacher/student is for teachers who compete in open amateur to not lose their amateur status by competing in the pro/am category.
     
    Mr 4 styles likes this.
  3. Spookisgirl

    Spookisgirl Active Member

    I understand that, but the teacher/student events are not restricted to only amateur teachers, it includes professional teachers as well.

    Basically, it appears that there are now two categories to choose from for PADS who dance with 'pro' teachers--teacher/student (which would also include PADS who dance with 'am' teachers) for one price, and pro/am that is double the price and only includes 'pro' teachers (and may have less people participating as it is one or the other).
     
  4. MaggieMoves

    MaggieMoves Well-Known Member

    Often student/teacher events lack the prizes that pro/am events have. There may be no championship or scholarship events, plus many of them are excluded from top teacher prizes. That's at least how NDCA events seem to be working it out lately.
     
  5. Spookisgirl

    Spookisgirl Active Member

    Thanks--I understand that there are a lot of discrepencies at various competitions. My question is specific to Blackpool though. I am wondering why someone would choose to do the pro/am events instead of the teacher student events.

    All events at Blackpool are open (no syllabus, just open for the style and separate age categories). There doesn't seem to be any cash prizes (although I may have missed that).

    I wonder if this distinction will mean lots of entries in teacher/student and less in pro/am, since students have to decide to do one event or the other, not both (although instructors can do both with different students).
     
  6. Spookisgirl

    Spookisgirl Active Member

    There was some clarification on facebook--the restriction for competing in only one event only applies to students dancing with amateur teachers--they cannot also compete in the open amateur events. Students competing with professional teachers are permitted to enter both teacher student and pro/am events with the same teacher.
     
    MaggieMoves likes this.
  7. dlliba10

    dlliba10 Well-Known Member

    With the amateur teacher, I'm assuming? What if they also have an amateur partner?
     
  8. Spookisgirl

    Spookisgirl Active Member

    The rule only prohibits dancers from competing in another category with the same partner. If they have another amateur partner they can compete in open amateur. Same for the student.
     
  9. rels77

    rels77 Active Member

    It's essentially a USA dance comp vs an ndca comp. I can't "choose" one or the other. My pro is ndca. So I do pro-am.
     
  10. snapdancer

    snapdancer Well-Known Member

    You could dance with your pro at a USA Dance competition in "Teacher-Student" events which is about the same as "Pro-am" but with a different name. AFAIK NDCA is not sanctioning pros who dance in outside competitions.
     
    Requiem likes this.
  11. rels77

    rels77 Active Member

    I don't know any ndca pro who's willing to risk it. And as far as I can see, the teacher - student category so far is not of the same caliber as ndca comps... most likely due to its newness.
     
  12. snapdancer

    snapdancer Well-Known Member

    They're probably operating on fear-uncertainty-doubt rather than any declaration of the NDCA.

    At a local USA Dance-registered comp this past weekend, there were several local teachers who I know compete in NDCA pro-am plus several out-of-town instructors who might also compete NDCA pro-am.
     
  13. Larinda McRaven

    Larinda McRaven Site Moderator Staff Member

    Yes, there were NDCA pros at this event. There were a few who I would consider average competitors for the local NDCA scene. And then there were those who are not competitive enough to stay afloat even in the local NDCA competitions. And each of those two groups tend to come for different reasons. Because events like this local one provide two specific opportunities for teachers and students that the local NDCA competition doesn't. A lower price point. And a lower competitive bar.

    That price point comes with a trade-off though. One student said to me "see... here we get music that is a full 1:30!" And I said "yes but at NDCA events you get air conditioning that works, changing rooms, music that doesn't change tempo mid dance, and more than 5 minutes to change costumes between styles. Your choice I guess"

    And for those that go for a lower competitive bar... there is no way to argue with that one. This provides them with an acceptable competitive experience for their students.
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2017
    RiseNFall likes this.
  14. Spookisgirl

    Spookisgirl Active Member

    @rels77 this thread is specific to the competitions during the Blackpool Festival in the UK. The rules/designations are different from what most are used to in the US, and both divisions, Teacher/student and pro/am are part of the same competition, sanctioned by the same organization (British Dance Council, which is WDC, I believe). There are ruled explained in the attachments that differentiate between who qualifies in each category for the Blackpool events.

    I haven't seen these divisions (named this way) within the same event before (although it may happen). NDCA events usually have pro/am and 'mixed amateur', but the same couples can't dance in both divisions (pro/am is for registered pro instructors, mixed amateur for instructors registered as amateurs).
     
  15. rels77

    rels77 Active Member

    I totally understand that. What I'm saying is that the distinctions in the rules is the same distinctions that separate USA dance teacher/student from ndca pro/am. It is the same thing.
     
  16. dlliba10

    dlliba10 Well-Known Member

    ... I try to make sure all my music is uniform throughout the 1:30. :(

    But also, not entirely sure why the USA Dance vs. NDCA distinction is being brought in here. NDCA competitions have both pro-am and mixed-amateur events -- I thought that this new distinction at Blackpool was meant to accommodate the amateurs who already do the latter at stateside events.
     
  17. Larinda McRaven

    Larinda McRaven Site Moderator Staff Member

    I know, the NDCA comparison probably should never have been brought up, we have enough threads already. But... since the point was made that NDCA pros attended the local event, it deserved to be addressed that there was a clear trade-off.

    As for the music, this one literally dragged the tempo slider all over the screen after the music started. And then when it landed somewhere and that still wasn't right, it was dragged around again. On almost every song.
     
  18. dlliba10

    dlliba10 Well-Known Member

    That's ... egregious. Worst I heard / saw in a video once was a Smooth Viennese at like 70?? MPM -- music director didn't even notice until one of the judges turned around and got his attention, at which point he slid the tempo down and everyone breathed a sigh of relief.
     

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